Beyond the Signboard with Amy Bennett
Welcome to Beyond the Signboard; where you get the opportunity to learn all there is to know about your real estate journey from professionals who are passionate about property.
Beyond the Signboard with Amy Bennett
Charting Success: Brad Filiponi's Journey from Photographer to Real Estate Innovator
Navigating the high seas of entrepreneurship and family life, Brad Filiponi, boxbrownie.com's co-founder, joins me on a voyage where we chart the course from snapping photos to revolutionizing real estate. In this heart-to-heart, Brad opens the treasure map to striking work-life harmony, revealing how he juggles the waves of a demanding career with the anchor of family, and even shares a slice of paradise with tales of rejuvenating getaways. It's an expedition of personal anecdotes and professional wisdom ripe for anyone steering their own ship through the bustling waters of business innovation and familial tides.
When we cast our net into Brad's professional deep dive, we haul in a catch of insights from his transformation from photographer to real estate mogul. Listen as he reminisces about his marketing journey, the importance of customer connection, and the digital evolution that's reshaped property sales. Brad's tale is a lesson in maintaining that personal touch in a world where pixels often overshadow people, and it's a reminder that the compass of innovation points towards redefining industry standards.
Setting sail towards the horizon of success requires belief and tenacity, and Brad's story is a lighthouse guiding the way. He charts his path from doubters' skepticism to securing influential clients, weaving through life lessons that encompass the value of honesty, the strength found in community, and the broadened perspectives gained from global experiences. So hoist your sails, and prepare for a narrative voyage weaving together ambition, technology, and the quest for personal growth with Brad Filippone as our seasoned navigator.
Welcome to Beyond the Signboard, where you get the opportunity to learn all there is to know about your real estate journey from professionals who are passionate about property. I'm Amy Bennett, your host, and I look forward to providing you with education, inspiration and a behind-the-scenes look at the world of real estate. Well, here we are, Mr Brad Filippone, Exciting to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us, Amy.
Speaker 1:I am so excited. We have a very long history together and we will be able to delve and share into that Really excited to have you here, sunshine Coast living legend, the man, the myth. Co-founder of boxbrowniecom.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. I was just checking out the buttons, obviously matching the hair, the pink and the purple, yeah that's right.
Speaker 1:It's all on brand. Absolutely so great to have you on the podcast. So good to have you back on the coast as well. You're a man that is travelling a lot with your incredible career and business.
Speaker 2:Yes, over the. You could sort of almost really call it. I always say eight years because that's how old my oldest son is and it was really started all when he was literally still in the womb and being born. But yeah, probably eight years of international travel, further and more times than anyone else in the scene, I'd say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was it? Over 200 nights away, something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh look, you know, on average, yeah, each year I was away more than I was home, and I would hate to actually add up all the travel hours in transit and flights that I did. It would be fun to do one day, but at the moment we're just too busy doing something else.
Speaker 1:What were you doing in your travel time? What do you use in that time? Transit on planes? Do you sort of maximise that time or have a break?
Speaker 2:It's hard, it's a bit of both, it depends. Unlike most people, we just won't do one conference. We might do three, four, five, six in a row.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do three four, five, six in a row.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so, like literally it's a conference bender, yes, and you know you're fighting with your international time zone differences and you know, not just sort of flying from state to state, which you know a lot of other, you know people would do as well in the scene. So, yeah, it's been a wild ride. I think I'm glad you know this year we've really turned off the travel. We're still doing conferences. I'm doing a lot less and working in the business a lot more. I just don't want to be away from my kids as much as I don't have to, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I've done a lot of that. Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it, to have that time? You mentioned you've just had a family holiday as well.
Speaker 2:We just went to Bali, which was really good. Eight days over there just off. Technology obviously still worked every day. It was my 40th birthday.
Speaker 1:So we just sort of snuck over.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, thank you.
Speaker 1:You made it, yeah, I made it, yeah. Grateful for that, oh sneaking up.
Speaker 2:For me it was good, you know, a couple of quiet bintangs and literally a couple of massages every day. That's really what we go over for and just to relax and live in you know, balinese time, I guess, if you want to call it that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, such a happy country and so grateful. You know, despite having you know not much you know. It just shows you what's important in life doesn't it?
Speaker 2:I think they're just beautiful inside and out.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, and everyone's got a smile on their face. Yeah, absolutely. You know it's organised chaos, but, as you said, everyone's happy, so it's a great place for the kids. You know what I mean. And you know we're just kicking soccer balls on the beach each night. It's just, you know the things that you should be doing here on the coast, but you forget about it, and it's been a really good reset for me. So, yeah, once a week I'll put it in my diary where we're going down the beach and kicking the balls so just things like that.
Speaker 2:It's almost like just living the simpler life sometimes can be amazing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We were just talking about that Like it's really going back to basics, isn't it? And I think you know that. You know we were both really fortunate to have an amazing you know upbringing here on the coast. So before we kind of get deep into the world of Box Brownie.
Speaker 2:Let's learn a little bit about your career journey. It's its own chapter, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I suppose. Obviously I finished high school, finished grade 12. I went to a private school here on the Sunshine Coast, Emanuel Lutheran College. Never really an academic, Proud to say, my OP was 24 out of 25.
Speaker 1:Hey, just beat me. I was 21. So we were there together.
Speaker 2:So I think you know I remember going to a really prestige, you know school in Melbourne and I remember the principal back then saying you get out what you put in. And it's really stuck in my mind ever since then. So, yeah, school wasn't a big thing for me, but I did a TAFE course after school, worked with a very famous photographer here on the coast called Greg Gardner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Greg's amazing.
Speaker 2:Love Greg, love my time with him. I'd love to maybe be his assistant again one day. You never know.
Speaker 1:So funny because it seems that he's born quite a few real estate agents under his wing. Yes, yeah, amazing so he's.
Speaker 2:I was probably's, maybe he's his first off shooter, if you want to call it that. We did a lot of weddings. He taught me taught me the importance of real estate photos and back then obviously there was no rea domain things like that. So it was, uh, the sunshine coast property week, yes, in the daily, yes, and obviously back then it all wasn't color gloss yeah, okay, so it was black and white wow, all throughout and only the edges were colour gloss.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's how long I've been doing it, and back then I was actually shooting on film camera.
Speaker 1:I thought you'd say that yeah gosh Processing the photos.
Speaker 2:Big W was my photo lab. We'd get them processed. I'd separate them. Good bad, no good, keep that one. And whatever they got, they got. Yeah, wow, and then I hand-delivered them back to the office literally most of the time overnight. Yes, but it was a very niche thing back then. You know, agents were just taking photos on their little film cameras and doing it themselves, and the quality was a lot different. So I've been in the game a long time. Not many people can say that.
Speaker 1:I like that. I game a long time. Not many people can say that I like that. I had Grant Smith on the podcast not long ago. He was actually a I can't remember what it was. He worked for Rabbit Photo here on the coast. Oh really, yeah, and I was just saying about I used to get my films done at Kmart in Mooroochydore.
Speaker 2:Funny we were just talking about that Fun fact I think I told Grant. I was on a cruise recently and he was on it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard I think you feature on his podcast as well. Yeah, Grant, how?
Speaker 2:are you mate? So yeah, look, I did my REIQ course back when David Carrera was training. Okay yes, grant did it the same time I did.
Speaker 1:There you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's epic, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:I still remember him from back then. Yeah, amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:Look, he's an incredible Asian, incredible person and I think to have that tenure in the industry is insane.
Speaker 2:So I attest to you as well. Yeah, it's kind of like both of us, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So what would you capture? I'm just fascinated by what you said about the black and white image, so you would have had to been really oh, so yeah, it was film.
Speaker 2:It wasn't black and white.
Speaker 1:It was still colour, but when it was printed it was black and white.
Speaker 2:So you had to so yeah, so a lot of the things I actually yeah, so the property week itself was black and white. Yes, most of the photos I was taking were for the colour gloss. Okay, so it was film camera colour film process and it would get probably scanned, yes, and placed in.
Speaker 1:It's terrible, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And somehow submitted to the Daily.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it was always for the colour gloss. You know, sometimes I had plenty of features on the front page and back pages, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing, probably still got them lying around, but it really matters. Oh, it's good when you go back. The rest is history. Yeah, you go through those archives. So then you moved into real estate.
Speaker 2:I did, I did. I worked for back then it was PRD Nationwide Kiwana Waters. Yes, back when Sid Walker had the Maroochdore office working under Mark Uncle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, so I did my full REIQ licence.
Speaker 2:you know official agent, but back then Grant was probably the youngest person selling real estate.
Speaker 1:Correct, but it wasn't a thing like it is now yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It actually wasn't, so I was a bit scared to dive in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chat through that. So you felt there was an age barrier.
Speaker 2:I believe so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, especially back then.
Speaker 2:This was a long time ago and I was customer service for at least two years, so I really learned the nuts and bolts of the industry. Obviously how important marketing was yeah, absolutely, because all we were selling was Bedina beachfront, deep water canal front, and that was really it. So it was always about the marketing.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know we talk about what that cost as well. You know, have those full page articles in print, your huge campaigns, weren't they?
Speaker 2:Oh, if you've got a half page, quarter page, full page like thousands back then, which is probably, I don't know. I'd feel it would feel more expensive back than it would now.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think there'd be no sort of payment plan options or anything like that like there is nowadays. So you know, having the confidence around, I think that's probably a really key component, isn't it? Having the confidence to be able to demonstrate excuse me, to a client why marketing is important.
Speaker 2:You know when you're selling your biggest asset. Let's face it. You know money doesn't grow on trees and you know you've got to be really careful with the money you earn, because it's hard to earn, easy to spend right, Absolutely, that's right. You know marketing, it is such a fiddle thing. You know you can get so much benefit from it. But then of course you can just blow money out the window at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think probably like talking about your time in real estate, it would have been really hard to measure, you know, the results of those marketing campaigns, so different to now where we've got reports, analytics, live.
Speaker 2:I mean now I can see how many people have added an open home to their plan. On realestatecom, you can do split tests on Facebook ads. You know you can. You've got the analytics.
Speaker 1:It's really all there, and even when it is all there, it's too hard to gauge sometimes.
Speaker 2:Correct Absolutely, yeah, it's really all there. And even when it is all there, it's still hard to gauge sometimes too right, correct absolutely yeah, obviously everyone needs marketing. Good marketing sells, and of course it's all about keeping pricing fair for homeowners, really because it's an expensive task to sell a house.
Speaker 1:It's a big undertaking. So that time that you had as an agent, what would you say were your key measures of success? What was your standout features?
Speaker 2:So I never sold. But yeah, I think customer service, because obviously that's what I did. We're still really high on customer service with the business we're in. Yeah, absolutely. Hence why I'm not training. We might dive into that a bit later on, but I'm literally recording personalised videos right here, right now. I've just finished before this podcast and you know, I'm the founder of the business and I'm the guy writing personalised video messages and recording them saying g'day trying to put that human touch on a digital marketing platform, I guess you'd say we are real people behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:you know, if we could talk to everyone, I wish we could, but you know, you just got to do your best.
Speaker 1:You've always remained really humble and obviously we'll chat through. But you know the growth of your business is through the roof and I said to you just off air before we started that even though you've got over 200,000 customers, which the mind just boggles, you know, for an amazing Sunshine Coast-based company.
Speaker 2:And don't worry, I will give you the accolades you deserve, because I know you are super humble.
Speaker 1:But honestly, you know, to still have that personal connection. You know, I know you come and do training with our team and even your time today, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:I'm just grateful to be in the position I'm in Amy. I loved my job being a real estate agent. Obviously I wanted to start a family, yes, and you know I felt like I was in the rat race. So I'm glad I've sort of unlocked that, doing what I love and almost paving the way like no one had done before. So that's what I like the most, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so from real estate straight into photography.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So yes, yes and no. I'm just trying to work it back now. See, once you get over 40, brad, that's it. Oh, it's hard. So pretty much yeah. I worked in real estate, worked for Mark. It was a great experience. It's really helped. Another stepping stone in what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:My dad had many businesses probably the funnest one I did I worked for. He had an import yard. So I'm into all my fast cars, especially the Japanese stuff. So he had a wrecking yard where back then we'd import motors for like cars, like your cars and trucks, and four wheel drives and all that. And he had a full performance side which we opened up and-.
Speaker 1:Was that here on the coast? It was here on the coast, Cumber Park. Yeah, epic, yeah awesome.
Speaker 2:So I used to unpack containers 40 foot from Japan, you know with. You know forklifts so I'd cut cars in half. You know all that sort of stuff. I'm not a mechanically minded dude but I just can appreciate it all yeah awesome. Just love going fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a shared passion that we have. We do like our cars.
Speaker 2:And really from there I was working for Dad, so I had a guaranteed job and I was really trying to build my photography section up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So there was a good few years there and we built a really good sort of. I branched off and did a really good high-performance Subaru business.
Speaker 1:Okay, where we?
Speaker 2:were getting parts where no one else could get you know straight from Japan.
Speaker 1:How did you source those?
Speaker 2:Dad had his contacts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome, so relationships 100%. Yeah, amazing, so once again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, relationships, customer service just.
Speaker 1:I suppose Doing what you say you're going to do, 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that sort of dad and that's probably something he's taught me as well. Yeah, amazing. So really it was between that and obviously that sort of dad ended up selling the business, selling the business, and then at that sort of same time I'd built up enough where I could just go out on my own and just be a photographer.
Speaker 1:Huge step which I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was because you're sort of wondering oh, I've got jobs this week, but what's happening next week? You know, you just have that worry.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's exactly right and you were married at that stage.
Speaker 2:No, no, single, you know, probably, you know just sort of running amok here on the Sunshine.
Speaker 1:Coast Partying at Fridays. And the rest don't you get 240?
Speaker 2:240B, yeah, and you know and all the rest. But you know I bought a house in Nambour so obviously you know was trying to do the responsible thing. But yeah, it's just that unknown. You just don't know what's around the corner.
Speaker 1:It's so courageous Like I love people's tenacity in doing that, and it does come down to a lot of self-belief, but bloody hard work, I would imagine as well.
Speaker 2:And you know the population wasn't as big as what it is now. So like yeah, there was less competition in what I was doing, but it's just that you know you're a young adult and there's just so many unknowns when you've never run your own business or anything like that. I never had staff my whole career. Yeah, that was real estate photography specifically, or did you kind of do a little bit of everything I just did real estate photography.
Speaker 1:And would you suggest that that was something that was that obviously continued on? But do you think that having that niche oh look, it always helps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, back then, every man and his dog's sister is a real estate photographer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's quite a big, thing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Charging you know big money for it now. Back then I was, just as I said, just a humble bloke. He really enjoyed my job. I love real estate. I love the Sunshine Coast. Look at today it's a beautiful day it's cracking, isn't it? Yeah, and just checking out real estate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing. It was really really cool. Something that gets under your skin with it, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Oh, I've been in. I just love it. I like it, I love the architecture, I love you. Know different, just everything about homes. It's cool in different spots and every home has something unique to offer has something unique to offer.
Speaker 1:I think that's, you know, probably the magic that you see in photography and I've certainly, you know, seen you in action but also just your ability. You are an attention to detail person, I know, even when we were setting up today Can't help myself. Hey, it's a good quality to have. I think that you know how you do. One thing is how you do everything, and I know you're fastidious. You know, anytime we've done a shoot, you know always looking at where is the light coming from, making sure all the lights are on.
Speaker 2:And just you know things like obviously now it's pretty standard, but just like cushions and are the chairs, all you know pushed in the right way? Are the taps facing the right way? It's just. I can probably blame my mother for that.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm not dissimilar myself. Although I haven't mastered putting my clothes away, much to my husband's disgust, that's the one thing I'm still guilty of that. Yeah, we've got to have one thing. So you were able to I guess you know work with agents on the coast to take that you know worry off their hands. As far as the photography, you were delivering the results on time. They were getting properties sold.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I think back when I was film days, it was all about education.
Speaker 1:Why do I need photography? Why do I need a pro?
Speaker 2:photographer when I can just do it myself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Now it's kind of going back that way again I feel yeah, absolutely. I just ran down the window at an agent today when I was grabbing a quick boost juice with a family and I'm like we'll just chat to him and he's about to try a new app which is great Snap, snap Snap which we'll probably talk about later. But I'm just sort of sick of playing back and forth with photographers when I can shoot results of my phone that look as good Well technology has evolved just exponentially.
Speaker 1:I mean, you probably don't know, my first role when I was 14 in pharmacy was actually managing our photographics counter. So this was in Beawar here on the coast. We didn't do the processing but we would pop it in a bag, it would go off to Brisbane, it would come back the next day and then you know, that evolved to. So I was ordering film and then that evolved to selling digital cameras and I think then was like 16 and it wouldn't have been Meg. I don't know, maybe it was the memory card, so it was like 10 photos and then that was done and then they got bigger and I think it was like a dollar per meg or so. I don't even know how that the ratio goes with what we're shooting now.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah, it's yeah, megapixels keep getting bigger and, yeah, so does the quality from digital cameras. But you know, I think Sony released a good statement, probably roughly two years ago, saying in three years the DSLR will be killed off because of smartphones. The cameras are getting good, and I remember the first day I saw the iPhone 11 with a wide-angle lens. That's when I'm like man, we need to look back into this app and just have another option for people, because, as we spoke earlier, selling a home is a very expensive ordeal. Sure, so you just need cost-effective ways to sell your biggest asset. I would say Absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right, let's go back to the journey of Box Brownie, because it is so. It's such a lovely story, it's something I am so proud of, you and Mel, for what you've achieved. Honestly, it's incredible and I know you are super humble but I am going to get you to get a bit deep. But you know, let's chat about. You know you said to me off air about registering the domain and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So obviously it's been a bit of a dream. We are in Caloundra at the moment. Just so the viewers know the name boxbrowniecom it was completely my. It was the name I wanted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tell us about why Well the reason is there's a few or there's one reason why I remember lugging all my big camera gear up, which is always on a backpack, because it was easier to have all my cameras in that and my tripod. And I remember the actual. It was a property management listing, I remember, but it was vacant and I was with the agent and we walked up let's call it five or six flight of stairs because it was somewhere in Kings Beach.
Speaker 1:I think it was Kings Beach. I knew you'd say that I know those stairs, so there were stairs there.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the actual physical spot. I could probably find it if we went for a drive. And I remember when we got up there and I'm flicking on my lights, preparing the house as you spoke about, and I remember the agent saying like still to this day oh gosh, we're certainly not shooting on the old Brownie cameras, are we?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? It didn't click then, but later on it clicked. Yeah, absolutely the domain wasn't available.
Speaker 2:I remember I had to actually pay three and a half grand for it.
Speaker 1:That's huge Brad, A lot of money 10 plus years ago. Oh let's, I'd almost call it close to 13. Yeah, Incredible. I didn't have the money, or I?
Speaker 2:or I did it.
Speaker 1:I was always really good with my tax, so I'd always make sure I put my you know my tax and GC in a separate folder. I never spent it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well done that's. That's.
Speaker 1:That's big and my accountant always said you know, brad, no one really does that.
Speaker 2:But I'm like hey, I'm a photographer. You know if I've got to pay this money back. I'm all by the books, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Do one thing, do it right, Correct. So I did all that, but I could always spend that money on. I'd call it, let's call it business expenses. So if I need a laptop or a camera, lens, I'd use that money and I was always fine my whole amazing, so did you have to buy it off someone else?
Speaker 2:So I had to buy it off a domain reseller. Okay, so it was all legit. It didn't look dodgy to me. I didn't even know what I was doing, yeah, but I bought it. Yeah, amazing, yeah. So, and there was another website I bought. We have let it lapse since Someone has swooped it up but, look, we're too busy to worry about that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:You've got enough going on. So then Mel joined.
Speaker 2:Mel, yeah, so I built a working prototype Awesome. The reason how that happened is I told someone about the idea and they didn't think it was going to work that well and I was like, cool, I'm going to follow my heart. I won't say who that was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all good. Don't you need that in life, though?
Speaker 2:No, it was more, just like I think just follow your heart, amy. Don't listen to the noise.
Speaker 1:Totally. But I tell you what. I remember having a comment when I moved into my role and I thought at the time it really stung. But I tell you what it was the fuel that gave me the worry You've got to rip the band-aid off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Nothing. Good is easy right. I couldn't agree more you know all thereabouts, as they say, but I started, I just acted is the best way to put it Amazing and.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you how I did that. It's all relative to being on site and being a photographer. So once again, it was actually a property management listing. Got chatting to the guy, had this idea in my head. People told me it wasn't going to work. I was like, well, I need it myself. Yes, so that's why I want to try this. You know, I love my job but I need to change. So I shot the property. I got chatting to the tenant. We were talking about moving things before. I'm very courteous, hey, you know the photos will reflect me. Do you mind if I just move this?
Speaker 1:and this. You feel awkward doing it. Yeah, of course no one bloody wants to do it. Toothbrushes is the worst for me. Oh, dirty undies.
Speaker 2:Dirty undies when they didn't have hand sanitizer invented then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could have gone a bit deeper too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so could I you get where I'm going and look, you know, I did all that and I got chatted to the guy. He's a web designer, so I just acted and I said, let's go. So this website was really good. This particular website actually picked up Stockland a few years later.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:Which is pretty cool. That's huge. And it linked to Dropbox. It wasn't automated, it worked. It was a business, so it didn't break any records, especially back then, but it worked and it was the start of the journey.
Speaker 1:Incredible Served its purpose.
Speaker 2:So I just think you know if anyone listening, if you've got an idea, people telling you it's not going to work, and you know something in your heart's telling you just to go for it.
Speaker 1:Well, you found a gap, didn't you? And I think that's the thing you know. When you come from an industry, you see what's missing, you see an opportunity and I think that's you know very much. A premise of this podcast is really about demonstrating the behind the scenes of the industry but also your business as well, I guess dispelling myths and showcasing that hard work does pay off.
Speaker 2:but Not all the time, unfortunately. No, that's true, and then that's what I say to people I'm like it's really sad People can work so hard their whole life and just not get ahead yeah, absolutely, I think I think. But yeah, that's probably one thing I'd like to post, but just have a go absolutely just have a go, yeah make sure you surround yourself with people, with good people.
Speaker 2:I think that's a big thing. Like you can't, can't get further in life by you know, maybe sort of you know, you gotta, you gotta expand your circle.
Speaker 1:A little bit, chat through that because I, because I think that's an absolute strength of yours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, you know you probably call me a bit of an introvert. You know I'm loud, you know I seem like I'm bubbly, but you know, deep down I'm just a dude from the sunny coast. But now when you're forced in the deep end, you've just got to tread water and you've just got to. I think you've just got to be yourself.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:I think that's the thing, whether people like you or not, it's just no BS. You know what I mean and you know it's easier to tell the truth and remember what you lied about. Absolutely, you know like I just think, that's how I've always come across, that's how I've always been brought up as a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Do as you say, as you spoke about before, and if you're yeah, and ask for help.
Speaker 1:You know, like that's probably one of my biggest life lessons was just to be able to go hey, you know and learn from people that are better than you. Like that's amazing. I always take advice from anyone? Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm not no at all, far from it. I don't think anyone ever is.
Speaker 1:But you know you've said about expanding your circle as well, because really there is so much to learn from all different. You know people's backgrounds, age, sex, race. You know, and especially with your experience and travelling the world.
Speaker 2:Culture.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, there's just so much to be. You know, I think life is an ongoing learning, so have a chat.
Speaker 2:Let's chat about how Box Brownie came about, the founding partners, Well yeah, well, look, I think Box Brownie really came apart Like I was ready to pack photography in and I remember you were like this because of all the travel you know I've done. I said to my wife I had a couple of mates who'd gone to WA, western Australia, to work in the mines. Yes, I had a couple of mates who'd gone to WA, western Australia, to work in the mines and obviously good money there. My goal back then was to do that, just to give up photography Before I'd, probably before this idea sparked and this is actually all part of it and I remember saying to my wife oh, I want to do this, you know, and she's a hairdresser and she had a couple of clients and you know what she said she goes no long distance relationship wow, I don't think it'll work because I've got clients who have done that and the families have broken up yeah and obviously my idea was I've got no, I've got no expertise anywhere else except what you know real estate marketing, if you want to call it that and that's that sort of.
Speaker 2:hit me and I remember sitting down once and I got an email. You get pestered by Indian editors. If you want to call it that, if you're a photographer, sure, to this day they email me yeah, okay, and you know, I try.
Speaker 1:I do get them on Instagram as well, asking advice.
Speaker 2:Everywhere, everywhere. So one day you get pestered, pestered, pestered, and you know, try to say it nicely- I don't mean no disrespect. Yeah, of course, and it's like it's pretty bad, but they're hustlers and you can appreciate that right.
Speaker 1:Totally, that's right. And volume, you know, I think you know like you get 10,000 no's in maybe one year, oh, 100% right.
Speaker 2:They're just doing their best, which is great, and I remember one time I was already using them and before Box Brownie I tried hundreds of them and they were terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible.
Speaker 1:So this was editing photos, is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry. So this is yeah. When you're a photographer, if you've got a website, you'll get offshore people trying to contact you to do your editing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, because as a photographer.
Speaker 2:you know you make more money on site doing more shoots. Yeah, correct, the editing is almost like the graveyard shift, like I've got to edit nine houses now. You're up until midnight.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, you want it back tomorrow. Right To get the photos back. Yesterday I was going to say but you get the photos back tomorrow to the agents, and then do it all again.
Speaker 2:Correct, it's just like. That was the rhythm I was in for years, and the amount of computers I blew up just from working them was crazy, like I went through heaps.
Speaker 1:Have you met a computer that's as fast as you? Yet?
Speaker 2:No, probably Mel's server at an office, I reckon yeah, but like it really started from there and I remember being contacted by an editor and there was like it was a price difference and I was like penny dropped yeah.
Speaker 1:With what my wife said and that, yes, I was like oh, so now I'm only doing that.
Speaker 2:At first I was paying $5 a photo to edit it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then it dropped down to $3 and then eventually, you know, it sort of goes from there. But now we're charging $2.
Speaker 1:A photo to give you an idea?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and we will drop our prices as we scale up. That is proven with our business. So we're like nothing else really out there. There's no subscriptions, no monthly fees. We just try and be the fair guys in the industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Agents come and go. There's 30% less agents now in America, you know so. You know. No one wants a subscription to pay for something they're not using. So that's always been our model. But that's really where it came from. Was that desperation of needing a career change and trying to support my family?
Speaker 1:I just wanted to pay my house off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing, because, you know, isn't that the Australian dream, or anyone's dream, to pay off their family home right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that's yeah, we spoke about that as well off air, like about that as well off air, like the. You know, we were just saying you know you put that what you do in five years, you know, so you don't have to suffer for 50 years. I mean, you know, I saw, you know my mum was by herself and paying a mortgage by herself, and you're exactly right, you know you've got to have that driving force. What are you, you know? What are you running from and what are you running towards?
Speaker 2:I think, as they say, you know the more or you sweat in peace unless you bleed in war. You know what I mean. Like it's just like do the hard yards, you know, and you know not always, but you know focus that energy and you know a lot of the time it can pay off for you.
Speaker 1:And even when it doesn't, brad, like what a lesson in life you know, like I think with you. Know, with success it's an internal success and it doesn't have to be an outward success. Or, you know, like, some of my biggest life lessons have come from failures or mistakes, or, like you said, that ability to put your hand up and ask for help.
Speaker 2:I think too it's like. I know it's hard to say at the time, but somehow you've always got to find a positive from a negative Always.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And even if it's not right, I think it's a mentality thing, Absolutely no. You've sort of got to get comfortable doing the things you're uncomfortable at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so true. You just have to do it Flex the muscle, the tough ones, yep.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like going to the gym and doing your bicep curls or whatever you do, like. I think it's just consistency, you know what I mean? Correct, yeah, and just try and keep it real.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think that's so important. So you had your overseas editors $5 a photo giving you your night time back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, it gave me that time with the family. Yeah, it gave me that personal time back right.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:It's always important. You know, as a photographer yeah, that was always. You know, it was just hard because you're literally shooting all day and editing all night. Yeah, like that's the rhythm, unless you outsource. I know there's a lot of photographers who still enjoy the editing and I kind of cringe at that going oh, come catch me when things change because it always does yeah, of course, but look, I used to love the editing too. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, but back then, when I was editing, there was no YouTube channels on how to do it. I was going to say, yeah, there was only deep forums you had to sort of go in and it's just different. It's like everything's different now. So evolved, you can jump online and learn how to do it in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, and all of the apps and programs and, I guess, self-editing. So then, yeah, chat about how I'm. So I want you to share about Mel and you coming together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Mel was my third time lucky building the system which I like in itself too.
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, I had two knockdowns and then I met Mal and we were just engaging him at the start to build it. When you're in any technology business, let alone property technology, you need someone who can code right. Pretty fun fact. I actually grew up in a back shed with my pa, grandpa, and he used to run the MS DOS on floppy disk drives and we used to go to computer swap meets, I remember, in Melbourne on gravel roads, and so he'd be looking down going wow.
Speaker 1:That's epic.
Speaker 2:He used to code back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Fun fact my uncle just moved up from Melbourne recently. He told me that my pa and his mate they used to have massive satellite dishes. Yeah, yeah, they created the first Zoom they knew about. Back then he didn't say Zoom, but my uncle said it was video messaging and they could talk to each other. And I'm talking back in the day.
Speaker 1:How epic is that? And I never knew about that. That's so cool.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of where I came from, I guess, and it's cool to see where it came today.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. My dad was. He had a really big fascination with computers and would build them, and that was early 90s. So same thing. I can remember him doing that and flight simulator like all those kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of flight simulators, my wife's grandfather. He was one of the people who invented it. Oh, there you go, as well as certain bits with the runway lights.
Speaker 1:Wow, funny mentioning that.
Speaker 2:And then my grandpa was actually in aviation as well, like in some of the wars, so it's kind of like Full circle. It's funny how life just twists you and that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So you knew that that coding component was so important.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I didn't really know.
Speaker 1:We all know what coding is kind of yes, but you need a genius right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and back then I just didn't know what I needed. I was just following my spirit. I guess you'd say or following the heart, like it's like how you need someone who can do websites, and coding is part of that, of course, and yeah, we're being business partners now. I always go off Christmases on bad, bad with dates, but at least eight years maybe not coming into nine and we just haven't looked back.
Speaker 2:Like realistically, I think I needed the two knockbacks yes, or the two failures yes To gain his interest. Yeah, I think if I'd have went to him from the start, it couldn't have worked out the way it did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. You know Mel was building. I love motorbikes. Yes, I remember walking there and he's building like Travis Pastrana's Nitro Circus online shop. I'm like dude, this is so sick.
Speaker 1:Amazing, I love motorbikes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I knew him when I worked at the Chamber of Commerce as well.
Speaker 2:That's who? Yeah, so Was he the.
Speaker 1:Is it still correct that he's the youngest person to go to uni?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was like. To my knowledge, when I met him, he was the youngest person to be accepted into university in Australia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 2:For mathematics.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, I think he was accepted at age 12.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing, and he couldn't go until he was 14. It's incredible, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And I think you know that just shows how different we are. But I think opposites attract right.
Speaker 1:And what commonalities would you have Like? What would you suggest to the anchoring? I'm guessing probably values.
Speaker 2:Just doing what we say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing, we haven't had one argument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just Not one. And it's just like do as you say. Yeah, it's pretty easy. Yeah, it really is, I could say something else, but I won't say it on air.
Speaker 1:We'll save that for after, but that's incredible. That speaks volumes for who you both are as people.
Speaker 2:I think you know, yeah, like just be a hard worker and just be honest, and you know just all that. But I think every situation is different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But you know I like it that we did a third time lucky. I still remember when I had to pay him quite a substantial amount of money when we weren't business partners and I'm like damn here we go again.
Speaker 1:I didn't even tell the wife, I was just going for it, and did you? You believed in the value, though I was scared shitless, to be honest. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then during that time we had to buy another business partner. I had to refinance the house. It was a good few hundred thousand dollars and we'd be lucky to be making $1,000 a month back then. Well, we spoke about that didn't we?
Speaker 1:The years of no income, like that's the grind that people don't see, and the refinancing a house when we're having our first kid, yeah, the stress the worry.
Speaker 2:You know, totally put it on the line. Yeah, and you know people said I was crazy at the time. I'm running around like a headless chook. I'm doing photo shoots. I'm getting up at three o'clock in the morning. We didn't you know. We've got that rework button. Yes, yeah, we never had one back in the day, so I was the rework button, so I'd be up at three o'clock fixing all the crap from the night before stressed out going to the.
Speaker 2:I do kickboxing which keeps my head straight. It really grounds, your course any sort of martial arts.
Speaker 1:It really grounds you of course, any sort of martial arts, Muay Thai, is it? Yeah, Muay.
Speaker 2:Thai. My brother was Australian champion. We're very heavily tied up in the scene especially Dad. But you know, and it just sets you up for the day, so I train in the morning. It makes you between photo shoots, going into the office, answering phones, fixing the issues. I did all that and this is for you know, no pay just keep putting money into tech yeah. Yeah, it's crazy when you look back at it.
Speaker 1:It sure is. And well, crazy in a good way. I mean, now we can reflect and look back. I mean, it's when you're in that hustle and grind, isn't it? But there's something you just focus on your.
Speaker 2:you know, it's like I didn't listen to any noise outside. I just knew where I was hoping I was going, I was going.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? That was my star, I guess, and that's what I was aiming for.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I guess you know for the detractors and those people that sort of questioned you would have had a lot of bloody good supporters behind you as well, I bet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I just stuck in, just got into it.
Speaker 1:I wasn't.
Speaker 2:You know, I was just working. Yeah, absolutely Grinding you know doing, seeing a few bits and pieces here and there I was just working.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that comes with that comes sacrifice. So obviously you know I know we'll chat about, you know that time that you miss with the family, but you know it would have been the same as well. I imagine in those years when you're grinding hard, you know friends still partying.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know all that. But then you know, I'm overseas partying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no one's ever seen. You know, I know you like tequila.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're in VIP parties inside VIP parties.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like. You know that speakeasy style, like the people we rub shoulders with are like the titans of the industry and you know everything's free over there, whether it's on whether we're paying for it, which the first conference we went to we couldn't even afford to go as a company. Yes, you know, I remember sort of slapping my credit card for the drinks bills, and drinks aren't cheap in America. You know that. I know that, yeah and yeah like, but look, it's unfortunately, you know.
Speaker 2:You have to do it to get I just, you know, I'm not a big, I'm a big drinker when I want to be yes. But I just, I don.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a social aspect isn't it as well?
Speaker 2:Well, that's what it is, Amy, to be honest, and connecting and networking.
Speaker 1:Like you're an incredibly smart business operator, you know what the foundation of a good business is connection, like I said, doing something better than everyone else.
Speaker 2:And just treating people like our clients are our friends and they become really good friends, which is awesome, Absolutely. But like you've got to build that in the first place, Correct, They'll see you at the booth. We're always. Our motto was first at the booth last to leave.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and that's still to this day. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And we don't sit down, we don't have chairs, when we're at the booth.
Speaker 1:We're always ready to go. Yeah, I know. That's like a rule was like we went to say hello and then you were like, you were straight on. You were like, oh, I've got to get and I love that, and um you know, I'm not.
Speaker 1:Those conferences aren't cheap, mate you've got to get that roi, but I understand that and I think that's really important. Um, so let's just for those, because there will be people that are listening in that actually don't know what you offer and I think it'd be remiss of me not to allow you the opportunity just to go really deep into each aspect and then let's have a chat through, because obviously I've probably utilised every aspect. I you know, I'm always been an early adopter, always one to try and break a system but also to, yeah, jump on board, because I know that every service that you offer is incredibly vital in the sales process, but also for our clients.
Speaker 2:And it depends the house right. That's why we didn't want subscription.
Speaker 1:Was that sort of something, that was an option.
Speaker 2:No day one. It was never an option.
Speaker 1:But isn't it interesting too, how much we've moved away from subscription models. Back when we did it, everyone was like you have to have it, we have early VC venture capitalists. You have to have it.
Speaker 2:You have to have it. You have to move to Sydney to make this work. If you want to be global, you've got to change the name. Yeah, wow, I was just like.
Speaker 1:Isn't that amazing For everyone that is listening in. There was a little middle finger there.
Speaker 2:But you stuck to your guns In a nice way.
Speaker 1:Of course, no, but agreed because you have to Follow your own heart. Yeah, absolutely so. Yes, isn't that funny, though, again, how people think they know the right thing when, ultimately, you've been so in depth and you know what people are looking for.
Speaker 2:I just think you know. Well, look, I suppose, yeah, boxbrowniecom. We are at the moment, the world's leading real estate photo editing website. Incredible, so think. Photoshop on a menu. I love it. We just got our coffees off a menu. Yes, everything has a preset price. Love that. The price you see, is the price you pay.
Speaker 1:There's no hidden taxes unlike many other countries out there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We have 24-7 customer support in four different languages, 365 days a year, so that's English, Spanish, Japanese and French.
Speaker 1:And they are always available. I tell you.
Speaker 2:Always available.
Speaker 1:I'm running edits. I think literally after midnight last night chatting to Pooja and having amazing customer service.
Speaker 2:So behind the scenes we have 400 staff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing In 19 countries Incredible.
Speaker 2:That includes, obviously, all of our beautiful customer service team management. You know all that, all of myself and everyone else who runs the business day to day. Including editing no, yeah, that's coming.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'll zip now.
Speaker 2:No, that's okay, so that's just that just makes the website operate Amazing.
Speaker 1:As do our editors.
Speaker 2:So that's our beautiful staff. That's our Box Brandy family. Let's do our editors. So that's our beautiful staff. That's our Box Brandy family. Now we have over 2,000 editing teams. So one team could be a solo operator. One could have two 300 staff plus. So that's a lot of mouths to feed and we're 100% bootstrapped or a self-funded business where in our scale of where we are. So you just said earlier, we have just shy of 200,000 clients right now self-funded and we have paying clients in 117 countries. It's incredible.
Speaker 2:As for sign-ups we've had I checked about a year ago. Yeah, we had A whole world in sign-ups except two countries.
Speaker 1:Can't wait, tell us.
Speaker 2:So I can't remember that.
Speaker 1:You're going to find out now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I will. I'll actually ask Mel and flick it to you. Is that amazing? But yeah, like.
Speaker 1:So how do you get and we'll go back to the products, because that's a really important thing how do you get that scale?
Speaker 2:Like. How do you get to Word of like and? And you know how much we used to travel, right? We spent hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars worth per year on travel expenses. Face-to-face. We're flying to New York and staying right on Thomas Square at the Hyatt.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, Proud to say we've done some very pimping stuff. I wish we had a video crew follow us on the journey. It would have been the craziest story, I think, ever.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You've definitely got a booker or a docker in you, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:But even just the people we rub shoulders with. And you know one of my best mates. He's the number one agent at RIMAX in the world.
Speaker 1:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:Another guy sold $5 billion worth of property. Like these are the people we're rubbing shoulders with private jets, this and all that, but at the end of the day it's word of mouth, Totally of mouth is still our highest form of advertising.
Speaker 1:So advocates within the industry? Oh no, it's more like anyone it could be someone from your office loves what we do. Yeah, that's right, and they'll tell a friend yeah, correct. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Or yourself doing a great podcast and someone will listen to it, and you're still telling a friend by doing this Correct, which we're grateful for.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so like Blogs, yeah, so like Vlogs as well.
Speaker 2:I know like All of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've always just diversified and always made sure that you're ever present in front of the people that are your consumers.
Speaker 2:You know we're doing blog or vlogs, if you want to call it that where I'm teaching photography training and literally you know we film it all in this house and I'm used to being behind the camera, not in front of the camera.
Speaker 1:Oh you nail it, no. Not in front of the camera. Oh, you nail it, no.
Speaker 2:I know We've done a few together, oh, but if you saw the early ones, they're pretty cringe worthy.
Speaker 1:Don't worry. I did an intro for a video a while ago and there was 15 outtakes and I just felt so embarrassed for the videographer.
Speaker 2:It's like you get comfortable eventually, right.
Speaker 1:Funny, funny, funny with the video vlogs, because I'd never forget your shooting a property. In how many seconds? 59 seconds or something.
Speaker 2:Seven minutes.
Speaker 1:Oh, seven minutes.
Speaker 2:Got a lot of haters that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've spoken about that before. I don't read it. Well, don't chat about the haters, tell us about that.
Speaker 2:Oh no, like you get a lot of you know any on social media, whether you're an influencer or just posting, or you've got videos.
Speaker 1:You have people. We'll call them trolls, because that's what everybody knows about. I don't read it, and you know what?
Speaker 2:I can guarantee you they would never say it to my face.
Speaker 1:Correct, that's exactly right. Look, I think as well too. You know, I always say those that are beneath you, or I say those that are trying to pull you down are already beneath you. And really, Really, it's not an accident that your number plate's Disruptor isn't it? I've got a few.
Speaker 2:Well, Disruptor. Everyone calls us a digital Disruptor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've got that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got Founder. Yep, I've got ScaleUp on a big ute that I have because we're a scale-up business now, not a start-up. Yeah, amazing, so I've bought a lot of PropTech number plates because I'm very passionate about really the, I suppose, pioneering the way, because when we started doing this and travelling the world, there was no other business but PropTech property technology that's the abbreviation for it. Wasn't it really a thing?
Speaker 1:No, that's right.
Speaker 2:Now it's just hundreds of companies and you know when you're an Aussie company and got the flair kind of we have you know. There's a reason why I think people never forgot us. Yeah, and I think we worked so hard up until COVID, where we couldn't travel. Anyway, no one forgot us.
Speaker 1:Oh look, and I think that's the really important thing, because you've done it that many times and I think that is that repetition of marketing. But, like I said, it's also about the delivery of product. You've never hesitated to jump on, you know, if there's been, you know we will share this funny edit.
Speaker 2:You don't mind if I share that? No, no, no, I love it. Explain why, though? Yeah, of course, which is always good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So a product, because we will talk about the products on offer. One is we get our drone photographs. They're amazingly well edited.
Speaker 2:Aerial editing and drop pin options to show local landmarks. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Essentially, we had a jetty and I gave a mock-up. Now I put the line in the wrong spot.
Speaker 2:So the mock-up would be you draw a duplicate image where you want the local attraction. So obviously an aerial photo can say a thousand words, obviously that one photo can show the whole area.
Speaker 1:So the beach is here, the shopping centre is here, the school is here. You know that one photo can show the whole area.
Speaker 2:So the beach is here, proximity shopping centers here, schools here, you know all that sort of stuff. So if you're an interstate, international buyer, correct you know? Hey, there's the house circled. Yeah that's all the stuff that's around it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I laugh because you would laugh at me, because I'm still, I'm still doing those in paint Like I'm still in MS paint editing, dropping them in. Anyway, I think we've got a markup tool now you do, thank you. Thanks, brad, I will move to that. Yeah, honestly, time and efficiency. I thought you were a daily adapter, anyway. So stupid me didn't put the bloody pointer mark down to the actual jetty. So when I wrote military jetty and then asked them to put the pointer on the actual jetty, they said actual jetty, which the irony is not lost on me. But anyway, we had a laugh and you know what?
Speaker 2:You got that cool rework button, haven't you, Mate it was fixed back straight away.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, some of the awesome products and I'll chat through, if you don't mind, some of the things that.
Speaker 2:I've used and what I love. What do you use and maybe give the viewers the benefits of what could be cool.
Speaker 1:So I guess the most, I'd suggest, the product that you're most famous for, I guess most used by the people I know, is the digital declutter.
Speaker 2:Right. So yes, virtual staging is what we're best known for. Wow, because we actually do the most in the world, which is pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:It's epic, so to get to virtual staging. You need to remove the items, so the item removal tool, Well, come on man, you're killing me. Anyway, back to what I was saying, is that the item removal, so the reason that that has been so powerful in our business is about people's privacy. Removing personal items, tenants in our business is about people's privacy. Removing personal items, tenants Definitely Digital declutter. I mean I've had team members that have spent a whole day removing personal effects.
Speaker 2:If you drop something, you break it.
Speaker 1:Yep, exactly, that's exactly what I was going to say, marking walls Dropped heirloom exactly, and here in Australia, $10 to have that whole thing done.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you the relief that is in an appraisal when I sit with a client and say you don't have to worry about that, you'll get that done. Virtual so definitely the virtual staging. So I just did an amazing one. So studio space, so multi-purpose studio space, so it's currently set up with a lounge and a work from home space. And then what we did and you'll love this, because this is something we worked on together is then we had that removed and then we had it set up as a one bedroom apartment and then we print that on a canvas and then have that an easel at the property. So I know we've done vlogs around that.
Speaker 1:I'd suggest that's probably just that next level. So certainly the reason for that and I guess it's important to explain the rationale. Why certainly the reason for that and I guess it's important to explain the rationale. Why is that? When somebody sees a virtual styled image online, sometimes there's a little bit of pushback. They come to a vacant home or it's felt a little bit misleading. They can't visualize a vacant space. So essentially, the reason why I found that the easel worked really well is. They could then visualize it, but it also maintained that level of trust, you know, and A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:You know, I suppose, and you know it was a good tip back in the day. I believe that I sort of told you about it.
Speaker 1:I think we did that about.
Speaker 2:yeah, we did a video on it, which is great.
Speaker 1:About four years ago or something.
Speaker 2:And that was what our customers would always say. That was the feedback. They're like we do. We were learning from our customers by being on site at these conferences.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I do remember that we'd share that and it works great because you're being transparent.
Speaker 1:Totally, that's right. You know a lot of people Well, thanks Brad for the idea. No, no, my absolute pleasure, and this is what we do, absolutely, you know it's all about giving back and just get in. You know, not everyone acts.
Speaker 2:Amy, like you do people, you tell 10 people, maybe one will do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, and you're that one?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely um, but I think a lot of people will have the vacant image online and then have the virtual staging and have a disclaimer on it. Some people will just have the virtual staging and then do the art easel trick. There's yeah, there's a few ways to bake the cake is what I always say. But correct, I think it's always easy to be transparent online and then when they get there and meet you, amy, they're already trusting you better correct.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right, and I think you know like it's a really good thing, isn't it, to chat about the misleading? Uh, there's, there's definitely a lot out there, so it's always about maintaining integrity oh, and it's even, like you know, artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2:It's out there now absolutely look it's good, it's gonna get great, yeah, but at the moment you know it's skewing the furniture, it's not adding. You know. You know the shadowing from the window sources. If you've got multiple angles of the same room in photos, it doesn't do that yet.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You can tell it's a bit plastic here, it will get better yeah. Much like the sky replacement. Ai can do bits and pieces of what we're doing. Of course, when it's good enough, I know we're going to be implementing it. Yes, At the moment, let's say, if you do a sky replacement and they go over the power lines and the antenna, you can get in trouble for that.
Speaker 1:That's a big fine, that's a huge one, absolutely, and you know when we're doing hand-tuned editing and what does that mean?
Speaker 2:I suppose real humans doing the. Photoshop, if that makes sense do is not AI, except for our property descriptions, which we'll get into later. Yeah, sure, but all of our editing is done by real people and I've just got off this training, but I've been training people the last three years. I've ran a team of 30 where we secret shop our editors, no extra cost to you. Yes, you might not even know we did this, but I ran a team and we rate our images from one to five all of our top edits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I rate our images from one to five, all of our top edits. Yeah, I'm looking for things like what we just spoke about. Or is the furniture got enough shadowing, or is that item removal? Is that line of the tile straight enough? Yeah these what we're looking at behind the scenes that you don't even know about. So we're, we're, we're only with the rating system. Only our good editors get the work, the bad ones get suspension, which means you, as the client, amy get, get the best result. You don't even realise that's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I guess that's great feedback for you as an end user as well as because I have sometimes had like a quality controller who'll come back and say, hey, we can do a little bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, there you go, and I love that, and so it's all those things, but I think it's.
Speaker 1:you know it could be an error on my behalf, like our actual j, and I think, too, like it's a new system.
Speaker 2:What we're doing, no one's done it before. Still to this date, everything's custom. You know, we, us as what do you call it? Us as business owners, we feel like we're building the system for you the best way we can, but who's saying?
Speaker 1:that we're doing it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes it can be our editors. Sometimes it can be clients submitting wrong or not understanding there's options, but that's like any business. That's why it's great to have customer service always available and always listen to every problem, whether it's good or bad, and just get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 1:We've just evolved so much. So what I love is that you know we've been able to do sort of agency templates and everything's pre-formatted. You know it's evolved and grown so much and I love that. So some other things that we do are 3D renders.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I knew you'd like me to talk about that. Yeah, I suppose. And people who don't know what a render is, it's an artist's impression or think a photo of a building or development that's not built yet. You'll usually see them on vacant blocks of land and on signboards, or sometimes on the fence. They have that nice mesh they print on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what we did. Worked with on a vacant land in Mumbai.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's a really, really good aspect. So you really good aspects. You've got to block a land, you've got to put a house on it or a massive commercial factory or whatever that is shopping centre. We can superimpose that so you can visualise what's going to get built. You know off the plan sales. That's how builders and developers do it. We also do the 360-degree render virtual tours so you can almost scan a QR code and literally walk through the property like it's CGI. And that's what snagged us America's Largest Home Builder, dr Horton, because we did that and everything else we offer.
Speaker 1:Amazing At a low cost option as well.
Speaker 2:Has to be low cost. Yeah absolutely, and that's really what we're all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, and then we will. Let's definitely get into Snap, Snap, Snap, because I we'll do that, but before we go there, I also love the 360 virtual tour.
Speaker 2:And you're just saying off air. Like you know, the office bought a camera, yep, didn't use it, yep.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:You knew it was there Once again, you just acted on it. Yeah, so it's a credit to yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's just amazing to have that opportunity, and I guess you know we were really fortunate to have you do a training session. I then forgot half of it, didn't I?
Speaker 2:But we've got vlogs on that. I know, Obviously you're local.
Speaker 1:We've got the privilege of doing it. You did give me training before. Yeah, any excuse to catch up. I'm good. I love we got that. You can't lock me in an office forever. I love being outside that. You know within the first day of a property going live. I had 40 views of that and what you know just to explain to our listeners. You know that allows the user to walk through at their own pace.
Speaker 2:And they get to walk the areas they want to walk in first Correct. Unlike a video, you're showing them where they want to go Correct.
Speaker 1:They go oh, I'm not going to go to the hallway. I'm going to go to the bedroom here first. I'm going to go up, I'm going to go down.
Speaker 2:So they control the experience.
Speaker 1:No hidden secrets.
Speaker 2:No, and you know they start at $20. If you've got your own camera, you just do the unedited tours, like I told you to. If you want to edit them and have a professional a photo, yeah and virtually styled.
Speaker 1:you can do as well. We can do all that, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But I think for $20 buying price for 15 shots, I believe it is you can walk through a property, yeah it's incredible it costs you $20. It's back overnight, and what I love about virtual tours is you just had 40 people go through that property Before they call you. You know that they're legitimised.
Speaker 1:Correct, that's exactly right. It's a pre-qualification.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're not saving 20 minutes driving there, half an hour inspection, 20 minutes to your next one. You've sort of already got that time back for $20.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an interesting thing. There's obviously lots of conversations for and against with all components of marketing. I mean, for me it's really about the buyer having a wonderful experience and not taking any. I guess not putting any roadblocks in their place, Just taking any. I guess, not putting any roadblocks in their place, Just giving them everything they need to make a decision. That's exactly right. So it's been a really good asset. And then Snap, Snap, Snap. So that is, oh, you're excited.
Speaker 2:Oh look, it's Snap Snap, snap. It's another world first. Yes, Much like our 360 renders the way we offer them. We've had a few world firsts, I guess you know for our, you know for our business, which is great, but it's a. It's an iPhone app. The Android version is only a couple of weeks away from from being, from being live. So if you are an Android user, let's give everyone who listens to this a free trial. Amazing, look, I'm not scared to give my email out. People say I'm not the, not the average CEO for doing so. I don't care, brad. I don't care, brad at boxbrandycom, if you haven't tried Snap Snap, snap, we'd love to get you on it. It feels like I'm cheating when I use it.
Speaker 2:I know the nuts and bolts of being a real estate photographer. It's my whole knowledge. In an app, you just push a button and it does everything, like it brackets, so it takes multiple photos of the same shot at different light variants. It actually takes up to 70 micro photos behind the scenes. It's amazing it took Mel and our awesome development team about three years to hack into the camera algorithm in the Apple. We had nine cameras to do on that one Android, we've got over 150. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's why if that makes sense, apple, they have so many.
Speaker 1:That's why Wow.
Speaker 2:It's a true game changer. And everyone says game changer. I promise that's what it is.
Speaker 1:So we just spoke about it. So where I position that in my marketing campaign? So I use it as a coming soon feature. So we will always engage a professional photographer and we'll have them on site and we'll do that as per our brand standards. But speed, you know, speed's so important in this industry and the opportunity is there to be able to get photos directly to the buyer audience. So we have the ability with realestatecom and also domain, to send sneak peeks out and obviously we want to build that momentum before the property goes online. So I just gave you an example of a property. So we appraised that on Monday, signed it up on the spot, had the tripod in the car, popped the camera on it. It was quite you'd laugh at me. It was a pool with a locked gate and so I put the camera on the other side of the gate and hit it through. But I mean I think you sort, you know, guarantee 24-hour return.
Speaker 2:It was back the same day we do um the, so the app does a few things. It does image enhancement, yeah so for those that don't know, it's two dollar edit here in Australia, dollar 60 in the US. In the US, um, it's 17 photoshop tasks. It's the exact same task. So I used to obviously work for your, for your bosses back in the day and yourself taking photos.
Speaker 2:It was the exact same editing sequence, if you want to call it that I did to all my photos so blue in the sky, green in the grass, lightning, brightening, contrast saturation, straightening verticals, because obviously wide-angle lenses do that. So it's all that for $2. So the app does that. What else it does? It does your digital declutter or item removal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:It does our day-to-dusk edit, which is our twilight effect. It looks like a dust shoot. Yes, proven to get five times more clicks here in Australia. That's REA stats. And lastly, it does virtual staging off the phone. So that's why it's a total world, first for a couple of sections, but the image enhancement. So if you just have a house it's staged like so many of your properties are you just go in with your phone and just literally snap, snap, snap, take your shots, pardon the pun. And if you submit those on site, by the time you've walked out the door it's in the system. The average turnaround time, mel tells me, is three hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I've had people get them back in 20 minutes and I'm like don't think it's going to be like every time and everyone's like no, no, we're stoked, like we get it.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think you really inspired that you know to take that step and to go okay, well, if you're taking a form six, so that's the appointment form that We'll take some images now out the facade and then we'll do the. You know complex facilities and then you know same day you've got that. You know that would be so vastly different, I'd imagine, to your real estate.
Speaker 2:It's so different, or we even train people. Hey, everything you've said is 100% correct. That's usability. Let's say you're going for a listing, what's going to make you stand out? So, like you, could, you know, do the old secret, drive up to the house, snap a shot at the front. You obviously don't want to jump the fence and go out the back or anything.
Speaker 1:You might look like a stalker, yeah.
Speaker 2:But grab a nice one at the front or a couple of different angles maybe one of the lifestyle area, the shops down the road or something like and do your $2 edits and have those ready to show your owners and go. This is what I've already done for you, but you can go a few steps further. What I would do is take a photo at the front and then do the day to dusk edit. That's $5, a beautiful dusk sunset. We turn the lights on. It looks like you've shot it at night. They're going to be like how the heck did Amy take a photo of a house so good? Yeah, absolutely. But I'd go one step further and go online and see if they had a floor plan and you could just grab the floor plan online redraw it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great tool that you've got as well $30, $35.
Speaker 2:We redraw any builder's plans, architect's files or even an old floor plan. Yes, and we can put it in your McGrath template, or we have many other templates to choose, or we can create a custom branded template. That way, you're going to go up with a dust photo and a floor plan already and go. I'm your marketing agent of your choices. I've already done this Just to show you what I can do, being proactive. And then I've got all this whole other range of suites that I can offer you if we need it, and this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Really just take control and just put your best foot forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. And look forward. Yeah, that's amazing. And look, you've always had such incredible ideas and, yes, certainly, like I said, I'll jump on board as many of them as I can. Already a few lessons from me. So, look, the business is going from strength to strength. Obviously, you're aware of disruptions in the industry, which is awesome, always at the forefront. If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you do?
Speaker 2:That's a really crazy question. Look, that's a hard one.
Speaker 1:I love that because you love what you do right.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just think this is what I had to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2:I can't answer that. I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know I often think the question through myself.
Speaker 2:I might be selling real estate.
Speaker 1:Well, it's always a desk. So you've just come back from Bali. Where else do you like to travel? Probably more so with the family than all the others. To be honest, it used to be America, yep.
Speaker 2:You know, as a kid I was very fascinated. You know all the motorbike videos I watched were all over there. Look, I love it. Probably my two favourite spots over there were Denver and Arizona. Yeah, awesome two favourite spots over there were Denver and Arizona. Yeah, awesome, love it. You know I've done America more than anyone I know, so that's a tough question. Look, we love Bali because of the beautiful nature and you know just what goes on, but I'm happy on my own. Back to Allstep, you know as well.
Speaker 1:So special isn't it.
Speaker 2:You know I've got a caravan. I love taking the kids outside and keeping them off the Wi-Fi where I can Like I enjoy motorbike riding. Are the kids?
Speaker 1:on motorbikes. Getting them into it Like you know, my oldest now loves it.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I don't yeah, so just I don't push anything on my kids.
Speaker 1:I let them just if they like what I yeah amazing.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't mind going to Dubai, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice that's probably somewhere.
Speaker 2:I think once again for the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The resorts over there and things I just want to. Anywhere the family has a good time, yeah amazing.
Speaker 1:I've seen enough of the world to. It's incredible, isn't it, how your priorities shift. I know COVID was a huge game changer for your business. That game changer for your business Like that, was literally probably a really good blessing to be able to enjoy your backyard.
Speaker 2:It was good being able to be around my kids a lot more. And then when COVID started opening up and I started travelling again, you know like I got to go to Cannes in France. That was really cool. I've been to so many countries I never would have travelled to if it wasn't for the business. But yeah, I just think you can't get that time back with your kids. Yeah, it's such a special time. Eight and a four-year-old.
Speaker 1:Freddie and.
Speaker 2:Freddie and Benji yeah.
Speaker 1:We say Freddie, because I've got my little pug, freddie and I love it. Freddie and Benji, what lights them up? What's their?
Speaker 2:passions If I told you they enjoy watching kids and adults unwrap presents on YouTube.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's so cute.
Speaker 2:Don't you hate it? No, it's not cute, it's terrible Far out. And they like watching this guy play Minecraft.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and they've got Minecraft.
Speaker 2:They don't play it. They don't even know how to play it. So, they get sucked into this content. That's sort of numbing, I feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's being honest no, no, no, of course.
Speaker 2:But my oldest son, you know, putting a positive on all that because I get the kids are going to have tech in their lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you need to teach them like just real life without it? Yeah, you know, because kids can frequent there's no Wi-Fi.
Speaker 1:We just spoke about that, though didn't we about even for us. That though didn't we about even for us? Like you know, we're both pretty tech obsessed. We're pretty like that is our world, isn't it? Content and being online, but there is nothing more empowering. I just went to lady elliot island for two days. We have no internet, never been there before.
Speaker 2:I want to go yeah but, my son plays soccer yeah, he's picked up soccer and you know, barley, we bought heaps of like messy singlets yeah yeah, all these soccer jerseys, um soccer and I live. We just got rid of our little player at the back. I've got soccer fields there now. I love nothing more than kicking the ball with my son.
Speaker 1:I'm an AFL kid.
Speaker 2:I played that all growing up. But he plays soccer and I can't be more happier for him, and his team has not stopped winning since.
Speaker 1:How good is that. My dad was a soccer referee growing up, so he always had the bag of soccer balls in the car.
Speaker 2:My son's got the full. Steve Irwin mullet. It's crazy. Best probably haircut. I've seen on a kid and he looks like Beckham out there playing. And he just picked it up and went for it Isn't it amazing. That's his passion, Yep absolutely. I said to him yesterday I said what do you love most about school? He said PE. The same way. So get them active, get them burning some energy.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and enjoying life together. What was the best day of your life? Brad for the pony.
Speaker 2:There's probably been a lot. You can pick as many days as you want. No, let's just say, oh, probably obviously having kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you know there's plenty, but just having my kids around me, yeah, like playing soccer down the beach, just just anything with my kids it's so worthwhile, isn't it?
Speaker 1:all those moments of getting through to where you are just just moments with the kids.
Speaker 2:I think you know I bought bought a book on the way home from bali. My son's like never seen you read before dad yeah, I read all the time he goes, nah, but like a book. You know, I'm probably reading books in the study, doesn't see, and stuff like that. Yes, but just things like that you love reading.
Speaker 1:No, but once again.
Speaker 2:I just told myself since I turned 40, I've just got to pick it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely that's another thing, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Just trying to broaden the brain power.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what are you reading?
Speaker 2:Rich Dad, poor Dad. Yeah, rich dad, poor dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool. I've actually always wanted to read it, so have I, and to be honest everything he was learning at age nine.
Speaker 2:Robert, I'm already teaching my son.
Speaker 1:Isn't that epic? Are you a book lender? Do you lend a book or you keep it on the bookshelf. You can have it up. We've got a book library here at work. Some people are either one way or the other.
Speaker 2:I've got some good books at home too that I've got to reread, but yeah, I've always wanted to read it. Sort of the airport, obviously the flight back from Bali, there was no TVs and the kids had got the iPads and the wife had Netflix.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I'm going to read a book.
Speaker 2:I read it nonstop for five hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. I'm such a bookworm. I've got a massive bookshelf next to and whilst I don't get a chance to delve into many of them, even just looking at them sometimes is just the inspiration.
Speaker 2:I think I've got to get audible. I think I'd be better listening than reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I shouldn't give a free plug, but I have on Spotify. I get the free audio book 15 hours. So with premium you get 15 hours a month free.
Speaker 2:There you go. I did see it there, but yeah, okay, there you go, there you go, all right there you go, Brad favourite meal and drink. Oh, that's a tough one. Oh, I used to love pizza, yes, but I've sort of cut things out of my diet. Now, yep, I'm going to say Mexican food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just Like.
Speaker 2:you know, even I've got a smoker at home, like I love steak, I love brisket and I love a good burrito.
Speaker 1:So good have you been to Barbecue Mafia in Brisbane.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't. Oh, that is good, but I've just been to Austin, texas, about five times in a row.
Speaker 1:Have you been to Franklin Barbecue? Aaron Franklin's.
Speaker 2:I've been everywhere, everywhere, man. That's my favourite.
Speaker 1:We lined up. It's so funny because we went to Franklin's Barbecue in Austin and we were like when's the best day to go? And they said Wednesday and DB, and I got there far earlier than we like to wake up. You got the chair and we got to meet Aaron. And I tell you what, if I could just take that tray and to bring that home was just like. It's sort of like oh, I won't Like.
Speaker 2:I got there. I'm like it's good, but it's not Like I thought it was good, good, but I was expecting something else.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm just like oh, we can cook stuff.
Speaker 1:You can do it at home, australia has pretty good stuff.
Speaker 2:Absolutely we are very blessed, you know like we're very Americanised, yes, and that's what I sort of feel sometimes too. But yeah, barbecue's great, you can't fault it. But the Mexican food in America, oh I know, that was my favourite in Texas.
Speaker 1:We used to go to I think it's called Torchy's Tacos.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh, so good Anyway we'll be back there later this year. And favourite drink like I'm just going to go with beer, yeah, Because you can't get it. It's called Modelo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no Modelo. So now it's a UFC brand beer.
Speaker 2:I've been drinking it for like 10 years. Yes, but you know I love good filtered water at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice, aren't we blessed to have it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I've got, you know, filters and stuff. In my house I shower in filtered water. Yeah, epic, I do all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So has that been something that has sort of transitioned? You mentioned about you know, making you know different choices.
Speaker 2:No, I think when was it? I think I've been drink. I think when I was 20. Now going back, it was a birthday party. It was a birthday and mom's like what do you want? I said, oh, if everyone's chip in and I'll pay the rest just to get a filtered water tap at home.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah I don't know if that's the best one to get, but it's still filtered. Yeah, there's lots of stuff in your water. If you didn't realize, team yep, um, and only recently we we got it redone and I said you know what I want to? I want to start showering in filtered water too. So I'm double filtered.
Speaker 1:Epic, that's so good. So just because I'm like water.
Speaker 2:Your body's made up of 80% of it right, absolutely so. That was you know. But you know I'll drink anything within reason, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the thing, isn't it? Like you can do, you can have the times where you had you kind. That sort of moderation level is as well. We oh gosh, we have spoken. I knew we would talk forever, but I hope this is the first of many catch-ups that we have. The whole premise behind the podcast is really to I guess you know, to literally give beyond the signboard. You know so many people think that real estate is literally put a signboard up and a sold sticker. I'm sure there's probably a couple of you know peaks in the industry that you've seen where that happened, but really you know it's a lot of hard work that goes behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:It's not all coffee catch-ups. And you know, podcasts, is it?
Speaker 1:No, that's exactly right. But I think you know what I've loved most is having people and being able to shine a spotlight on your business. You as a person as well.
Speaker 2:person as well, so let's end with your favourite quote or saying it's probably one that my brother probably put on. Well, I said it before. I think the more you sweat and pee, the less you bleed, and war, and I think that comes. That sort of same sort of thing is like do what you say, be a hard worker, you know. I just think it's all those things we've really seen collectively in this podcast Like you get out what you put in. That's probably another one. I think it's kind of all the same thing. It's like you know, work as hard as you can and generally you know there's a better chance it could pay off for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I love that you did. You know sort of delve in and say is life, isn't it ultimately? But I think you know you, you, along with other guests, you know there's a real common theme, which is hard work, determination, self-belief, um, and being a bloody good human being. Like I said, I think, ultimately, you know um. If you've got those and you're on the way, um, does it? Does it always turn out? Maybe not best laid plans, but, like you said, there's always a a positive in even those tough times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you just got to. You know it's just yeah, life's difficult and I think the way life is moving so quickly now with technology, it's scary. So you've got to keep up with it Absolutely, and if you don't, you will be left behind.
Speaker 1:Perfect. So I think the key message there is keep up with technology, but get off it if you can as well. Enjoy the time A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:You know moderation right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right, Brad. It has been absolutely amazing to have you Fist pump, Fist pump and look forward to another catch-up soon.
Speaker 2:Likewise Thanks, Amy.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of Beyond the Signboard. We trust you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed making it for you. If there are any topics you want covered in the future, make sure you reach out and let us know. Also, feedback and suggestions are appreciated almost as much as likes, shares and downloads.